31 responses

  1. Jonf
    December 8, 2012

    Does Cullen claim to be first with this? He should disavow that position.

    Another question. Has anyone in the administration weighed in n this one way or another and if so what did they say? This seems very logical and Beowulf is a pretty good lawyer. I think he once said the Rs would be the first to use it.

    I think he is right about the Rs but for different reasons. I think the Pres. could also use the 14th but he has said he won’t do that. Reason? Well when he cuts entitlements he can say those other guys made me do it.

    • Joe Firestone (LetsGetitDone)
      December 8, 2012

      Hi JonF, He seems to have said that here: https://twitter.com/PragCapitalist/status/277092220996308992 In any event, the three miantsream bloggers were saying it and they’re the ones who need to correct their posts.

      Beo’s a great lawyer; but as far as we know no one in the Admin has said anything about it! Perhaps the President’s recent assertions that we won’t play the debt ceiling blackmail game any more has PCS in mind. But I wouldn’t bet on that!

      I don’t think SS will be cut right now. Too many Senators against it and I don’t think House members are interested in walking the plank again for the 2014 election. As for Medicare, the word late last night from Ezra and in PK’s column today is that they’ll raise the eligibility age. But I think they’ll get a firestorm over that. Too many people are just marking time w/o insurance waiting until 65 to get affordable Medicare. They’s going to go ballistic over this, and Dem House members and Senators will be risking their seats in 2014 if they do this!

      • Jonf
        December 8, 2012

        Thanks Joe.

        I doubt President will use the coin too. None of this makes any sense to me. How can someone say he won’t play the blackmail game and not embrace a way around it? Senseless. If he just paid the bills I’m not at all sure anyone can do anything other than complain. Imagine the supremes telling the Treasury not to pay the country’s obligations? What a spectacle.

        The change in Medicare is so unnecessary and hurtful to too many people. What can you say about this ugly stuff? SS will be an issue for another day. Too many think it is going broke. It’s the sort of thing that makes me nuts.

        Well at least Cullen didn’t say he was first with the PC. The first I heard of it was from Beowulf. But you were pretty close. I’m not sure if I saw it on Cullen’s site or not.

      • Joe Firestone (LetsGetitDone)
        December 9, 2012

        JonF, in the twitter link above Cullen said this:

        “Even better. It was started by an attorney commenting on my blog. Ha.”

        Well, yes, Beo is an attorney, and he was commenting on the PPCS idea Cullen was writing about on 07/07/11, more than 6 months after Beo posted his first piece on the subject, and also more than 6 months after I posted mine.

        On this:

        “If he just paid the bills I’m not at all sure anyone can do anything other than complain. Imagine the supremes telling the Treasury not to pay the country’s obligations? What a spectacle.”

        Right on, I think. I’m not at all sure the Supremes would interfere at all. They’d probably just chalk it up to a conflict between the other two branches and figure that if Congress didn’t like, then they didn’t have to appropriate the deficit spending in the first place.

      • Jonf
        December 9, 2012

        Got it. Thanks again, Joe.

      • Joe Firestone (LetsGetitDone)
        December 9, 2012

        One more thing. Cullen has now disavowed any suggestion that he was the first; but believes he played a big role in popularizing the idea in July 2011 through his well-attended blog. This claim may well be true. But you can see from the above that may others also contributed in that climactic month!

      • Thomas Sewell
        January 12, 2013

        This “mint a coin with a high face value to pay the Fed” idea actually goes back to at least 1992, when Bo Gritz made it a standard part of his stump speeches while running for president. He even carried around a sample 5 inch $4 Trillion face-value coin to exhibit during his speeches.

        Quotes and links to a representative sample of his original comments are available at http://comeletusreasontogether.com/where-does-mint-coin-pay-debt-idea-originate .

        The above article may trace the origin of the idea’s current incarnation, but it’s not a brand new idea.

  2. Joe Firestone (LetsGetitDone)
    December 8, 2012

    I hope everyone will Facebook and Tweet this as much as possible. We need to get the mainstream bloggers to make corrections when they screw up, which is frequently. We also need to get them to read the Posts of people who know something. Right now they’re just blogging off the top of their heads.

  3. John Turner
    December 8, 2012

    When I read articles such as this and the comments I re-read the last section of Chapter 10 of Keynes’s General Theory. I suggest that others do the same. What possible difference is there between going back onto a gold standard and using platinum deposits in Fort Knox?
    I could make one suggestion; package all the public assets into one mortgage held by the Reserve Bank. Don’t let Wall Street near the mortgage. Some of the assets would be difficult to value for mortgage purposes such as the knowledge stored in all sorts of repositories and placed there from posterity. The various governments in the USA hold assets which must surely have value far in excess of the government debt.
    The whole debt issue and fiscal cliff debate is pure bullshit. The only limit to the rate of growth of government debt internally is that imposed by the prospect of inflationary pressure. Inflationary pressure never seems to influence the thinking of the CEOs and the other wealthy when they want to increase their own incomes in dollar terms.

    • Joe Firestone (LetsGetitDone)
      December 8, 2012

      The platinum coin has nothing to do with the gold standard because the face value of one is pure fiat, decided upon by the mint. Read one of the key posts referred to in the post and you will see this.

    • justaluckyfool
      December 9, 2012

      John Turner,”…The whole debt issue and fiscal cliff debate is pure bullshit…”
      Certainly on target there.
      John Turner,”… one suggestion; package all the public assets into one mortgage held by the Reserve Bank. Don’t let Wall Street near the mortgage. Some of the assets would be difficult to value for mortgage purposes such as the knowledge stored in all sorts of repositories and placed there from posterity. The various governments in the USA hold assets which must surely have value far in excess of the government debt.”
      *****ISN’T that what “money ” really is ?
      Money is now NOTHING that is in the form of fancy colored paper, electronically formed digits in a bank account,metal etc., which are used as a receipt of all the SOMETHINGS, the goods and services, before you can get ANYTHING .Quote Frederick Soddy,” Money is now the nothing that you get for the something before you can get anything. (“The Role of Money”).
      A Monetary Sovereignty uses money as a distribution system for all the goods and services (wealth)
      of its community.

  4. Dale Pierce
    December 9, 2012

    Even if someone told this coin idea to Barack Obama, and even if it was in such a way as to make him believe it, the probability that he would act on it is precisely zero. He wants to win the debt standoff, not avoid it. And, sadly, his idea of winning, and his idea of a fine legacy to leave behind, is to join Bill Clinton in the pantheon of corporate Democrats who have had the guts to do some serious damage to the poorest and most vulnerable on behalf of his pals amongst the elite-of-the-elite.

    Read his book. It’s all in there under “What I think about when I’m hitching rides on Gulfstreams.”

    • Joe Firestone (LetsGetitDone)
      December 9, 2012

      You may be right about what he wants to do. But the Democrats remember 2010. They lost the Congress by walking the plank for him on a number of issues. I don’t think they want to do that again. Already SS is off the table and the left is organizing for Medicare. This may well go over the cliff, and then the debt ceiling and the cliff may be too close together. If the left doesn’t fold then Obama’s boxed in. He may need a year. Minting a coin would get him that.

  5. justaluckyfool
    December 9, 2012

    Joe Firestone, “Minting a coin would get him that.”
    Justaluckyfool says perhaps,”QE would make his term “Lincolnesque”-
    Lincoln freed the slaves, he could free mankind from servitude.
    Google :Justaluckyfool, QE

  6. Rich
    December 9, 2012

    What will the people who make multi-billions per year from interest on USG bonds do when a 20T$ coin is minted and the debt is wiped out? :) or :(

  7. Calgacus
    December 10, 2012

    The wayback machine has a version of Marshall’s ND 2.0 post at Obama Faces His Own “Teachable Moment”.

    Unfortunately it was only crawled once, and too early to catch Beowulf’s comment in that thread, that you quoted at FDL. But I have an earlier comment in that thread, referring to the coin. As my old comment indicates, and as beowulf suggests above, the coin had been discussed earlier than the ND 2.0 post, at Warren’s blog.

  8. Tony Lima
    January 12, 2013

    Most of the citations are from blogs. On my blog I’ve rounded up the best of Twitter (http://gonzoecon.com/2013/01/the-one-trillion-dollar-coin/). I also have the official results of a Twitter poll for the name and design of this coin. It will be called the Freddie Krugerrand (@ProofBlog is our lucky winner). A mockup of the coin is included in my blog entry.

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